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  4. Can science prove God exists?
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Can science prove God exists?

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Offline CliveG

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #660 on: 27/03/2020 19:58:30 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 27/03/2020 09:19:39
Which brings me back to Tarot. The Simpsons correctly predicted Trump's presidency 17 years ago. What odds do the cards give on (a) his re-election (b) a deferred election (c) a constitutional amendment allowing more than two terms or (d) a grateful Senate conferring life presidency over the smoking ruins of civilisation?

Since I have time on my hands I will give it a go and let you know the results. I do this reluctantly but it will be interesting and informative.

My wife asked me a few weeks ago to ask the cards if she should close the factory. I said that it was not necessary because I was so sure that it was the right thing to do. And it was. But I did the cards anyway. When I was framing the question I realized that I was mostly asking for Yes and getting it. This is seriously pushing the odds, and I considered re-framing to get a No but I did not. When I did get a No I knew I had to add my own bit of ritual to the cards and ask them first whether I should frame for a No or a Yes. I will cut the pack and if the card is reversed I will frame the question for a No, otherwise a Yes.
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Offline CliveG

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #661 on: 27/03/2020 20:10:03 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 27/03/2020 19:48:00
How far into the future can you make a prediction?

The biker was only a matter of 5 minutes. My first four failed marriages were about 4 years each (the cards told me they would be disasters and I ignored them). The hypnotized teenager was only a matter of a couple of hours. My predictions on stock and property markets were only a matter of a month or two. Generally when I use Tarot cards, I do not look further than 6 months when people ask me to look at their future. Trump was about 5 years.

The prediction about the pandemic was God telling me (in 2009) it would happen but that I had to refine the message because humankind had to learn the lesson of why it was happening. I have vaguely understood the time frame and the plan as it stretched out but I am not privy to the details.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #662 on: 27/03/2020 20:12:10 »
Quote from: CliveG on 27/03/2020 19:47:10
"Even the most obstinately ignorant cannot avoid learning when in an environment that educates."

Does that mean you plan to stop begging t the question and presenting anecdotes as if they were evidence?
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #663 on: 27/03/2020 20:13:26 »
Quote from: CliveG on 27/03/2020 20:10:03
The prediction about the pandemic was God telling me (in 2009)
So you predicted a pandemic in 2009
So, like...
when..
there was...
 a pandemic...
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #664 on: 27/03/2020 20:15:33 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 19/03/2020 13:20:31
Quote from: CliveG on 14/03/2020 07:52:53
Quote from: Bored chemist on 13/03/2020 17:40:24
Quote from: CliveG on 13/03/2020 17:15:34
I have (used to have an even better) excellent memory. I remember most occasions. Mine works most of the time - too many times for randomness.
Post a diary.
That will unequivocally show which side is right.

I had to double check who the poster was. Such a logical common sense post.

Such logical common sense... that you haven't done it.

You daren't.

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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #665 on: 27/03/2020 21:11:35 »
Quote from: CliveG on 27/03/2020 20:10:03
The biker was only a matter of 5 minutes. My first four failed marriages were about 4 years each (the cards told me they would be disasters and I ignored them). The hypnotized teenager was only a matter of a couple of hours. My predictions on stock and property markets were only a matter of a month or two. Generally when I use Tarot cards, I do not look further than 6 months when people ask me to look at their future. Trump was about 5 years.

The prediction about the pandemic was God telling me (in 2009) it would happen but that I had to refine the message because humankind had to learn the lesson of why it was happening. I have vaguely understood the time frame and the plan as it stretched out but I am not privy to the details.

I'm rather interested in the paranormal and supernatural, so I'm trying to figure out a way to test this without breaking the rules that you have mentioned. As such, I don't expect you to give exact dates for predictions, but can you predict the year that something will happen? The decade? I'll make a few suggestions here and tell me if any of these are doable:

(1) Can you predict whether or not there is an undiscovered planet in the Solar System? Just to draw a line between what is and is not a planet (since there are no doubt plenty of Pluto-sized objects out there waiting to be discovered), I'll put a lower mass limit equal to Mars on that. I would use the current definition of a planet (orbits the Sun, is rounded by its own gravity and has cleared its orbit), but the last criterion might be tricky to satisfy for something out there in the Kuiper belt with all of those other objects floating around. If it does exist, can you predict the year it will be found? Or the decade?
(2) What about dark matter? Can you predict what it is and what year it will be detected?
(3) Can you give us a reasonably tight time frame for when the coronavirus vaccine will be developed and/or when it will be available to the public? Which country will be the one to develop it?
(4) Can you predict the year (or at least the decade) when the first humans will set foot on Mars? Or if that will happen at all?

If these are not satisfactory, I will attempt to think of others later.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #666 on: 27/03/2020 23:07:13 »
Quote from: CliveG on 27/03/2020 19:39:34
Boers would take their rifles and kill off the English by sighting along the barrel
The fiends! It's utterly unBritish to point the barrel of a rifle at your intended victim. A gentleman would aim upwards and hope that the bullet might eventually fall on the target. This is surely the origin of the term "boorish behaviour." Before you know it, they will be bowling bouncers and lifting in the lineout.
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Offline CliveG

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #667 on: 28/03/2020 07:12:07 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 27/03/2020 23:07:13
Quote from: CliveG on 27/03/2020 19:39:34
Boers would take their rifles and kill off the English by sighting along the barrel
The fiends! It's utterly unBritish to point the barrel of a rifle at your intended victim. A gentleman would aim upwards and hope that the bullet might eventually fall on the target. This is surely the origin of the term "boorish behaviour." Before you know it, they will be bowling bouncers and lifting in the lineout.

The British were very sporting by wearing a bright red jacket and white pith helmet so that they could be clearly seen as both an enemy combatant and a target.

I was one of six to get a snipers badge in my outfit. And with my ability to estimate things like angle and wind speed and imagine the arc, just maybe I could fire in the air to drop the bullet on the target. Not.  8)   I was about to say it would be fun trying, but then killing is not a game. Perhaps if I said a prayer each time I fired? (Bad humor on my part, I know). These are trying times.
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Offline CliveG

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #668 on: 28/03/2020 07:19:05 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/03/2020 20:13:26
Quote from: CliveG on 27/03/2020 20:10:03
The prediction about the pandemic was God telling me (in 2009)
So you predicted a pandemic in 2009
So, like...
when..
there was...
 a pandemic...

No, I did not predict. I was told. The 2009 Swine Flu was only confirmation of the message, and within a week I knew that and was correct. I had to figure out why God told me there be a massive die-off probably by pandemic. So the timing was delayed until last year when I experienced the effects of the cell tower radiation. I "intuited" that this was the last piece of information needed and that the die-off would start soon. Hence my postings.

Have you not read the chapters I posted? Too long for your short attention span? Too mind-numbing to accept?
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Offline CliveG

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #669 on: 28/03/2020 08:48:33 »
Quote from: Kryptid on 27/03/2020 21:11:35
I'm rather interested in the paranormal and supernatural, so I'm trying to figure out a way to test this without breaking the rules that you have mentioned. As such, I don't expect you to give exact dates for predictions, but can you predict the year that something will happen? The decade? I'll make a few suggestions here and tell me if any of these are doable:

(1) Can you predict whether or not there is an undiscovered planet in the Solar System? Just to draw a line between what is and is not a planet (since there are no doubt plenty of Pluto-sized objects out there waiting to be discovered), I'll put a lower mass limit equal to Mars on that. I would use the current definition of a planet (orbits the Sun, is rounded by its own gravity and has cleared its orbit), but the last criterion might be tricky to satisfy for something out there in the Kuiper belt with all of those other objects floating around. If it does exist, can you predict the year it will be found? Or the decade?
(2) What about dark matter? Can you predict what it is and what year it will be detected?
(3) Can you give us a reasonably tight time frame for when the coronavirus vaccine will be developed and/or when it will be available to the public? Which country will be the one to develop it?
(4) Can you predict the year (or at least the decade) when the first humans will set foot on Mars? Or if that will happen at all?

If these are not satisfactory, I will attempt to think of others later.

I appreciate your posts. I think people should take an interest.

I have never touted myself as a psychic despite my psychic experiences. I have either experimented or have had random unexpected events. I did not take any of them seriously until I met my fifth wife in 2007. She was very in tune with spirit and used it in her work to heal people psychologically.

Since then I have done research into the supernatural. I met and interacted with many who do work connected to spirit and various religions. Many of these were "chance" meetings, such as at an airport layover, or professor who my wife was meeting. I feel I was guided at various times to read a certain book when I was trying to make sense of the rules and work out a hypothesis.

When I look back, it was the sequence of these events that seem like lessons in forming my "opinions" to explain a recent event or something that not make sense. Even my late wife's death was a learning experience. Quite a lot happened in the six months after that. I am not able to "will" something to happen or communicate with God or spirits. They decide when to interact, and it is often subtle.

I have the intellect to take vast amounts of information and analyze it all. I was able to pass my school and university exams by memorizing the text book the night before the exam. I did not have to do examples or learn examples because I had an "intuitive" understanding of the subject matter and could solve problems quickly.

One can set up all sort of experiments to test the supernatural. Mental telepathy is the easiest using Zener Cards. I have tried such an experiment and it failed. It would have been "too much proof" at the time. I can relate a number of Tarot card readings that were successful in predicting legal outcomes and other matters. They work for me and my wife because they are regarded as "personal anecdotes" by skeptics.

I can give guidance as to how to conduct personal experiments. The problem is that they may provide you with some personal assurance that there is "something" there but if you are strict enough to publish a science article it is likely to fail.

The book I wrote and published did not sell at all. In my view, God allowed me to go through the process to learn. I will now rewrite. I have 3 weeks at home to publish the second edition of the second part. You would benefit by reading part two of my current book. Part one is autobiographical so as to give people an idea of who I am with regard to credibility and also so that one sees how corrupt and broken the world has become, and why a "clean-out" is needed.

If you send me a private message I will send you a pdf copy and also give you the title and the author. It is an ebook on Smash words and Amazon and a paperback on Amazon. I priced as low as possible, but enough to get a small income and get an idea of interest.

Your questions. My feeling is that "dark matter" and "dark energy" are inventions to explain the unexplainable. I think that when God (via the Ultimate Intelligence) set up the Universe and went through many iterations to perfect humans (yes, I think we were intelligently designed) that he still has trouble resolving the extreme macro with the extreme micro. If the Universe is an illusion this lack could be seen as possible proof of God. God could do another iteration but get us where we are currently after tweaking another constant. He would then give some scientist an insight and the discovery gets made.

I am reading as much as I can about the corona virus and using the knowledge I gained by researching cell radiation on living cells. I can do the Tarot cards and ask a few questions. 1) Will there be a vaccine (with or without serious side effects)? 2) Will there be a mitigation/medicine to improve human immunity to the point it helps? 3) Will the virus die out in the next two years (as Spanish Flu did) 4) Will the first vaccine have bad side-effects 5) Will there be a successful vaccine? 6) If a successful vaccine is applied after the trials when will it be ((with or without serious side effects). You can see the difficulty of getting answers using the Tarot cards. I cannot go to sleep at night and wake up with the answer. My own feeling is that a "dead" corona virus is too damaged for the body to recognize and build immunity. It may be possible next year, but next year may be a little late. I also fear a mutation that will cause a second wave.

Putting foot on Mars. My feeling is too much money for too little payback. The volunteers will be on a short one-way mission. I will try the Tarot cards. Mission within 5 years, 10 years, 20 years. Our global society may be too crippled to want to try. The purpose of the pandemic according to God is to focus on this planet and live in harmony with it and get society to live in harmony. We already know technology is capable of enormous ventures and successes.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #670 on: 28/03/2020 10:21:07 »

Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/03/2020 20:12:10
Quote from: CliveG on 27/03/2020 19:47:10
"Even the most obstinately ignorant cannot avoid learning when in an environment that educates."

Does that mean you plan to stop begging t the question and presenting anecdotes as if they were evidence?
Quote from: CliveG on 28/03/2020 07:19:05
I experienced the effects of the cell tower radiation.
So, that's a no

Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/03/2020 20:15:33
Quote from: Bored chemist on 19/03/2020 13:20:31
Quote from: CliveG on 14/03/2020 07:52:53
Quote from: Bored chemist on 13/03/2020 17:40:24
Quote from: CliveG on 13/03/2020 17:15:34
I have (used to have an even better) excellent memory. I remember most occasions. Mine works most of the time - too many times for randomness.
Post a diary.
That will unequivocally show which side is right.

I had to double check who the poster was. Such a logical common sense post.

Such logical common sense... that you haven't done it.

You daren't.


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Offline CliveG

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #671 on: 28/03/2020 12:28:56 »
Some predictions can be a matter of common sense but they also need to be "informed" common sense.

A week ago our neighbor died from cancer. His two sisters had flown from New Zealand over three weeks ago to be with him although they did not know how bad his condition was. Early Sunday morning my wife was told by the man's mother that the two had gone to the airport to delay their departure a few days. It was on speaker phone and I interrupted and said I was being presumptuous but they should not do so because the chances were high they would not get back for quite a while. They did leave that Sunday and a couple of days later the shut-down was announced with no flights at all - foreign or domestic.

Here is another prediction from "informed common sense". The US was late to take action. There was plenty of warning. China did a dramatic lock-down. Every person seen had a mask. The streets were deserted and it was a ghost town. The US still does not understand how serious this is and the need for masks and protective gear. Trump is offering false hope. The US should have made the wearing of any mask in public compulsory. People should have been ordered to cut a pillow cover and make a mask using an elastic band. I have made these years ago on the farm. The elastic band self ties onto the corners. The masks should be washed with soap everyday. One old lady my wife stood next to in a line had used the inner foam of a bra and it looked neat.

The face shield is also a must for hospital staff. Take an A4 piece of overhead projector plastic and duct tape a strip of cloth again tied with an elastic band. Wash frequently and spray with alcohol between patients.

Gloves. All people in public should be wearing plastic bags over their hands if they have no gloves. They work quite well.

But this will be too little too late. The US does not understand just how infectious this virus is. Some Arabs in the Middle East will be saying that the Great Satan has been brought down by Allah.

After 2009 my late wife and I prepared to do a "prepper" where we would buy in a country spot with some community and support but would be rather isolated. That did not happen but we got a rent free opportunity to have a 2 year extendable lease on a permaculture farm. Not only did we find out that such a lifestyle is unsustainable but it could be deadly. We both got bat fungus and that killed my fifth wife.

After that, I decided to live normally but slowly prepare. We have two generators, gasoline cans, gas cylinders, solar backup and a number of items that I felt would be useful if the normal retail shops were not open. I have bits of plumbing, plastic and copper piping, all sorts of fittings, and a lot of raw material of various sorts. All sorts of useful tools to make a range of things as well as do repairs. SA was the country of choice and not the USA.

I now have to look further and take into account societal collapse. The shut-down is unlikely to work. What it did was send workers rushing to their homes in rural areas and probably taking the virus with them. The police are corrupt and are only motivated by self-interest. The army is too small and not enthusiastic.

How do I protect our home from a mob of hungry angry squatter camp dwellers? First we need to organize the residents into protecting our block-off area at the three main entrances. Luckily (by the grace of God) we were forced to move to an area much better protected and less of a target. Next I have to think of a bunch of invaders trying to access the house. As an engineer, I have some ancient methodologies to dissuade them. I will set up the CCTV cameras I have and make them discreet so they are not "taken out". Then a bunch of "booby traps". Will it come to that? Given the lessons of history - yes. And given the lesson of US unpreparedness - yes.
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Offline CliveG

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #672 on: 28/03/2020 12:37:36 »
The social media misinformation is coming thick and fast.

One was from a doctor saying how bad things were going to get in SA and how unprepared SA was. She said a 50% death rate was possible. She also said that anyone going on a ventilator was not going to live.

Then the anti-Chinese rhetoric. The virus was man-made in a Chinese military lab and then released into the wet market. The Chinese want to take over the world.

Personally I get a good laugh every few hours by the jokes and humor. One friend sent a message "Good morning, inmates!" We are playing music. Italian opera as well as Golden Oldies. My wife and I are sorting all the medical supplies and medicines I have accumulated. Boxes of it. A lot from my late wife has expired and is being thrown out.
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Offline CliveG

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #673 on: 28/03/2020 12:51:52 »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventilator

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_ventilation

Doing some research. I have two CPAP masks and I have an oxygen concentrator. Plus an oximeter, a couple of thermometers, a blood pressure meter, a stethoscope (which I also use to diagnose car problems such as wheel bearings).

Why are the US government and US companies not knocking out the old-fashioned weighted cylinder machines. Use a compressor and use it to actuate the lift cylinders. Or motor car wiper motors. One way valves are easy. Crude timers can be used. I reckon I could design one in a matter of two days and get them mass produced. So could many others, so why is it not happening. They have to be matched to the patient and can cause problems if not set up properly. What is better? A less than optimal ventilator or none?

I want to do more research into how effective they are for a corona virus patient. Do people recover if in severe distress or is it more of a preventive measure for selected patients.

On our local news the field reporter was asked about equal treatment of people and areas by the authorities. His answer was a classic. "The book Animal Farm teaches that some are more equal than others."
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Offline CliveG

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #674 on: 28/03/2020 12:58:04 »
Denialism in today's modern society. It cannot happen to us. Yeah right.

Here is a graphic of one spring break beach.

https://www.foxnews.com/tech/cellphone-heat-map-coronavirus-potential-spread-from-travel
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Offline CliveG

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #675 on: 28/03/2020 13:03:26 »
Quote from: CliveG on 28/03/2020 12:28:56
People should have been ordered to cut a pillow cover and make a mask using an elastic band. I have made these years ago on the farm. The elastic band self ties onto the corners. The masks should be washed with soap everyday.

This was a predictive comment by me that was quickly given some support when I saw the article a few minutes later.

Check Fox News article: MyPillow CEO on making face masks during COVID-19 pandemic
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #676 on: 28/03/2020 14:37:40 »
Quote from: CliveG on 28/03/2020 12:51:52
"The book Animal Farm teaches that some are more equal than others."
And recent US history shows that lots of people believe what the pigs say. I'm surprised your countrymen are as gullible.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #677 on: 28/03/2020 15:47:43 »
Quote from: CliveG on 28/03/2020 08:48:33
They work for me and my wife because they are regarded as "personal anecdotes" by skeptics people who understand evidence.
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Offline jeffreyH

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #678 on: 28/03/2020 16:19:55 »
CliveG I feel very bad for you. You have been dealt a bad hand in life by irrational beliefs. It isn't your fault that you cannot determine a rational explanation from a fictional one. However, it is on you to seek out the truth. Stop believing every thing any bad faith actor tells you. You are only deluding yourself.
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Offline PmbPhy

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Re: Can science prove God exists?
« Reply #679 on: 29/03/2020 00:18:37 »
Quote from: jeffreyH on 26/03/2020 19:23:21
And God said "Let there not be coronavirus." And there was still coronavirus. "Oh sh1t!", said god, "I don't exist."
Lol!!
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