[Bored chemist]

You really need to respond to this.

Sunlight kills it.

Sunlight kills all viruses.
But thank you for explaining the root of your misunderstanding.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

an intermediary, which could be a laboratory, or a human

Quote from: Jolly2 on Today at 11:50:09
but it could be...
Quote from: Petrochemicals on 26/02/2021 20:58:00
Randy Marsh and Micky Mouse on a bender in China.

More nonsense which I'm not replying to

You just did...
It is not nonsense to point out that you are assuming something as true when at best it's a remote possibility.

I'm not assuming anything true.  There are plenty of biologists and virologists, citing the laboratory leak hypothesis as a the cause due to gain of function,  you're the one assuming it implausible. And the one burying your head in the sand with regards to any explanation save the one you like. It's utterly unscientific approach.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

You really need to respond to this.

Sunlight kills it.

Sunlight kills all viruses.
But thank you for explaining the root of your misunderstanding.

Again I'll be ignoring your constant trolling.

[Bored chemist]

And the one burying your head in the sand with regards to any explanation

You have yet to offer an explanation.

What are the military applications of a virus that kills 5% of the world's grandparents?

Also, why do you think this virus is adapted to indoor transmission, what are the adaptations?

[Bored chemist]

you're the one assuming it implausible.

I'm not "assuming" it is implausible; I am explaining why it is implausible.
Do you really not understand the difference?

[puppypower]

One observation that points to China, is that fact that China restricted travel, internally, within their own country, while still allowing travel abroad to the USA and NATO alliance countries. Common sense tells me, if the virus had started in the USA, or among any of its allies, Chinese spies in those countries would know and China would have been better off restricting travel abroad, to isolate itself from this foreign threat. The opposite happened.

Why send many of its top people, to the infected lands, while buttoning up its own country? China also claimed to have the virus under control way sooner than anyone else. This would also make sense. If they created the virus, they would be already prepared for immunization. If you develop bio-weapons, you need to have an antidote in place, or else it could backfire on you.  It would be like developing poison gas without also having respirators for your own soliders.

The Democrat party in the USA and China had a good alliance, before the virus. The Democrats sent jobs overseas allowing China to grow in power and wealth. Both control fake news in their countries. They have a lot in common. Neither had good relationships with Trump. It appears the teams were already set before the virus was used. Biden's son had already received $billions in loan guarantees from China that was under investigation. If this had been Trump's family this would be grounds for collusion and impeachment. Biden-China collusion for Biden personal gain and Chinese leverage, was ignored by fake news or called conspiracy theory until it went away.  Why not call for an investigation since Hunter admitted it on TV.

Trump was at his strongest in 2019 and the Democrats needed a miracle to win in 2020. They also needed a miracle to escape justice for their spying in 2016. Trump's strongest suit was the economy and the China Virus was the leveling agent that took that took that away from Trump, and gave the Democrats a fighting chance. Was this timing coincidence? It seems weird that the virus appears at the start of the election year and target the opposition strong point.

Nobody in the Obama administration went to jail for the spying on the Trump Campaign, that was worse than Watergate. Nixon used amateur campaign aids to spy, while Obama and Biden used government intel agencies to do the spying. Nixon almost went to jail for something less. Why didn't Obama go to jail, since the buck stopped with him? For those whose job it is to deny this, maybe you can answer this question. Why is there now a push to alter or do away with FISA, if nothing bad ever happened?  If this was legal, why change anything?

I sort of partially agree with the current claim, that the USA was responsible for the virus. The twist is it was not all of America, but the Democrat party and the Swamp; ends just the means. The strategy to create and/or take advantage of tragedy is common to the Democrats; never let a good tragedy go to waste. They created the "peaceful protests" that were not peaceful. In the end, who gained by all this? How we got get from point A to point B; virus is not a clear as is who ended on top at point B. Democrats killed the economy, and China increased its trade surplus with the world. China was very prepared in advance. 

China and the Democrats gained the most by the appearance of the virus. Was it coincidence that the Democrat leadership on Democrat controlled states became  like mini China dictatorships, in terms of citizen control? In the end, open versus closed states had similar rates of attrition, with Democrats preferring the China approach.

The push to sanitize China from all blamed, did not begin in force until Biden became president. There is an attempt to rewrite history.  Revisionist history is a common Democrat party tactic to distract from their scams. Is anyone still aware, because of revisionist history, that the Democrat party was the original party of slavery in the USA, and Lincoln was a Republican? Democrat led revisionist history blames all whites, and not just th one's with D's next to their name. The blacks appear to be fooled which may be why they cannot leave the plantation.

Instead of following the faux leads connected to nebulous science claims, being presented by Democrats and China minions to distract, look at who were allies, who had the strongest motives,   who had opportunity and who in the end, gained the most.

If Cuomo the governor of NY gets to skate, after his nursing home scandal, that killed thousands, this will tell us that he was following orders, from above, to increase the drama of the Democrat-China collusion scam, to help undermine Trump. New York and California combined are a large chunk of the US economy, and if their economies took a dive, Trump's economy feather in his cap could be removed, even with sober Republican states doing the right thing.  Cuomo is being ignored by the same fake news that is sanitizing China; motivation and means.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

you're the one assuming it implausible.

I'm not "assuming" it is implausible; I am explaining why it is implausible.
Do you really not understand the difference?

You haven't offered any explanation as to why its implausible.  You've just made statements.  Like "its implausible".

And seem to ignore the FACT that gain of function research into bat Corona virus' has gone on for years and that many biologists and virologists also see it as very plausible.

The only thing I understand is your obstification.

[puppypower]

One thing we need to keep in mind is science is not self sufficient when it comes to resources it needs to do science. Science is beholden to others for its resources. Scientists get paid way less than these managers. Even in the free market, corporate profit is put back into R&D, by the money managers, who may or may not be scientists. They take into account profit, how the market is reacting and to the needs of competition. Most of the resources for science come from government and private donations. What that means is science has an unspoken obligation to the money givers or else that source of funding will dry up.

For example, if you were a scientist working for a tobacco company or a solar power company, you can still do good science, but you will need to make sure your goals and published results are acceptable to your host. You will not be able to publish good science that makes them look bad, such as tobacco causes cancer, or cost affective solar power is still decades away. That can put egg on the face of your host. The same is true for climate change, since this money comes almost exclusively from governments and therefore politicians.

This does not mean good science is not being done It only means that good science that contradicts the needs at the top, will be suppressed, or else you will be sent packing. It is easy to buy a consensus in federally funded science. NASA was cut back by the Obama Administration not because the science was bad or self inflicting, but because of the optics of politics. Less output data, due to less resources, makes this look self induced; political optics. If we cut back on climate change research by 50%, this makes it appear less data is now supporting the premise. If we double it the end can look nearer.

This is why the science approach to the Corona Virus origins is not the best approach. In the end the money managers of governments control this science. I took the approach of motivation, means and who benefits the most in terms of the money managers, since the buck of science will stop there.

 If you defy the money managers, in China, and/or are not with the program, you will disappeared from the lab. China has its own consensus in mind. Anyone who did not parrot the company line was disappeared in China. This is not as possible in the USA, due to the Constitution, which is why powers above came up with the denier scam to erase those whose good science disagrees with the money manager goals. The Democrats and China have so much in common when it comes to science control and induced optics.

The Democrat money managers take this one step further but paying for mercenary science that fits their social agenda. For example, male and females differ by an entire chromosome. There is not anywhere near this genetic potential to support any of the gender claims, expect by epigenetic changes associated with choice and willpower. Yet this bad science is a dime a dozen, because the money is there of those who will agree, and pressure is applied to those who don't, regardless of the quality of the science.

   

[Bored chemist]

You haven't offered any explanation as to why its implausible.

Yes I have.
Can you get a grown up to explain this to you?

What are the military applications of a virus that kills 5% of the world's grandparents?

[Bored chemist]

The only thing I understand is your obstification.

You only understand made up words...
That explains a lot.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

You haven't offered any explanation as to why its implausible.

Yes I have.
Can you get a grown up to explain this to you?

What are the military applications of a virus that kills 5% of the world's grandparents?

I dont know why Military Gain of function research scientists hate Grannies. You'll have to ask them.

[Bored chemist]

You haven't offered any explanation as to why its implausible.

Yes I have.
Can you get a grown up to explain this to you?

What are the military applications of a virus that kills 5% of the world's grandparents?

I dont know why Military Gain of function research scientists hate Grannies. You'll have to ask them.

So, you think they exist...  that these granny hating military budget holders are plausible...?

[Kryptid]

Funny how my post was skipped over. Tell me why I can't use your exact same logic about sunlight to argue that the flu is lab-made.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

Funny how my post was skipped over. Tell me why I can't use your exact same logic about sunlight to argue that the flu is lab-made.

They could be developing new and different flu virus as a part of gain of function research,  I was once told by someone that during his military training he watched flu being released intentionally as a operation to track the virus as it spread,  I never enquired so much about it, but I assumed it was a bio weapons drill.

So in a sense I already know the British establishment engages in that, there is also the biological weapons attack the British intelligence services conducted in the London underground back in the 60s.

Put nothing past the sociopaths incharge.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

You haven't offered any explanation as to why its implausible.

Yes I have.
Can you get a grown up to explain this to you?

What are the military applications of a virus that kills 5% of the world's grandparents?

I dont know why Military Gain of function research scientists hate Grannies. You'll have to ask them.

So, you think they exist...  that these granny hating military budget holders are plausible...?

Considering the utter abhorrent levels of depravity the sociopathic despots that run Britain have, there isnt much they are not prepared to do, if anything, if Britain wasnt enough of a Big brother tyranny before, it seems quiet clear today, with the passing of the Covert human  intelligence bill the sociopaths incharge are not only happy about the massive human rights abuses they engage in to defend their sordid position,  they are absolutely intent in getting worse.

As we see with the massive propaganda campaign run against Jeremy Corbyn and the Massive propaganda network Mi6 has established world wide, they are determined to build a system that will never move from the course that they seek to dictate. I say let them have it, they can go build their depraved tyrannical nightmare, I'm honestly curious about just how disgusting they are prepare to be, and how much lower they can sink.

I just counterpose that anyone who cares about the Rule of law, human rights, truth, freedom,  or morality shouldn't want anything to do with the place, and they certainly shouldn't want to live there. 
Calling on people to fight for change in a society that seeks to make change impossible, in many respects is simply a call for them to be tortured and brutalised like Assange is,  I'm not interested in more people suffering under the despotism, so I recommend they leave.

So the idea of a few scientists building a gain of function virus to kill the elderly isnt even a blip on the sociopathic radar.

[Petrochemicals]

We dont know that,  that statement is conjecture. They isolated the virus from infections in wuhan, 
we don't know how it started there,  with 80% having mild flu like symptoms or being asymptomatic, possible it started somewhere else and an infected person caught a train to Wuhan,  also possible it came to wuhan at the military games or It escaped the wuhan laboratory Or someone bought ferret badger steaks at the local wuhan market, that were inflected at the farm somewhere else in Asia.

We do know that. We know that the corona 19  variant started in wuhan for the reasons we have gone over, with no evidence for the contrary. That is fact. If anyone elsewhere had contracted it prior we would have two hotpots. These are facts.

A government cover up on a prior unidentified strain is conjecture.

Ferret badgers on a train is fantasy.

[Kryptid]

They could be developing new and different flu virus...

You realize I'm talking specifically about the natural flu virus, right? If the natural flu virus is destroyed by sunlight, then the fact that COVID-19 is also destroyed by sunlight cannot be used to support the "made in a lab" claim.

[Jolly2 (OP)]

They could be developing new and different flu virus...

You realize I'm talking specifically about the natural flu virus, right? If the natural flu virus is destroyed by sunlight, then the fact that COVID-19 is also destroyed by sunlight cannot be used to support the "made in a lab" claim.

No you are missing that a virus that adapts to transmit outside has a higher tolerance to sunlight, an indoor transmission virus doesnt, to be transmitted outside during the day that's a requirement.

Still it's clear governmental policy of telling everyone to stay inside and  not go to the park or beach was absolutely rediculas

[Jolly2 (OP)]

We dont know that,  that statement is conjecture. They isolated the virus from infections in wuhan, 
we don't know how it started there,  with 80% having mild flu like symptoms or being asymptomatic, possible it started somewhere else and an infected person caught a train to Wuhan,  also possible it came to wuhan at the military games or It escaped the wuhan laboratory Or someone bought ferret badger steaks at the local wuhan market, that were inflected at the farm somewhere else in Asia.

We do know that. We know that the corona 19  variant started in wuhan for the reasons we have gone over,

No you dont, you only know that's when China after testing samples identified the virus,  before it was identified as a novel strain of SARS, most doctors would have told people they have the flu on presenting symptoms. It's only the very elderly they show more severe symptoms.

with no evidence for the contrary. That is fact.

No its assumption.

If anyone elsewhere had contracted it prior we would have two hotpots. These are facts.

No they are not, they are complete assumptions based in hind sight. Until the virus was identified it didn't exist, as far as doctors were concerned, and any doctors  seeing a patient expressing the symptoms of covid would most likely diagnose flu.

It's only on testing samples a new virus was found GPs don't do that. Not until the elderly became seriously sick anyone bothered to test.

A government cover up on a prior unidentified strain is conjecture.

Not with regards to China it isnt, a doctor who was silenced by the Chinese government had been reporting for weeks in November about a respiratory illness, he later died of covid19, the laboratory in wuhan destroyed databases.

Ferret badgers on a train is fantasy.

No one suggested ferret badgers on a train. There was the suggestion by the WHO that a ferret Badger farm may have been the source of the intermediary, probably now somewhere in Thailand or Cambodia where the Virus evolved before being shipped as ferret badger steaks to wuhan leading to someone in Wuhan catching covid. Of course in that circumstance you would Expect farm workers to also get infected potentially and you should also be able to find a ferret badger population with a Corona virus strain.

Or you could find the driver of the ferret badger steaks bringing the virus to wuhan.

All possible, as is also a gain of function virus escaping by accident or being released intentionally.

Each hypothesis has certain requirements to be true, with an accidental release you would expect a cover up and we see one in the wuhan laboratory.

With an intentional release you would expect the group responsible to use it and the pandemic it would cause to further their agenda. I wonder if there is any international group currently do just that?

Ofcourse they can go together where the group that intentionally released the virus had a degree of control and investment in the wuhan laboratory that conducted a cover up.

I'm still looking at fort Detrick,  where we know there was a release of something, there was a respiratory outbreak the weeks before it closed in an old peoples home, and military personal took covid to the wuhan games. Where many athletes claimed to have had a covid like sickness they caught at the games. Also would if true, explain why, right at the beginning of the pandemic we saw many politicians world wide get sick,  all countries had military personal at the games, and military has fsr more close connections to politics,  then the public does.

There is ofcourse another possibility that the elites of the west and China did it together and that would answer some questions.

[Kryptid]

No you are missing that a virus that adapts to transmit outside has a higher tolerance to sunlight, an indoor transmission virus doesnt, to be transmitted outside during the day that's a requirement.

Do you have data that shows COVID-19 is more vulnerable to sunlight than the flu is?