[duffyd]

For Alan

"All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made"  I thought this verse might interest you. It is referring to Christ as the One through whom everything in the universe came in to existence. He was fully man and He was GOD. Incredible

[alancalverd]

Something/Somebody had to kick this thing off

Why do you think so?

and Jesus Christ said He was His son.

Not in any bible I have read. He wasn't that stupid. And even if he had, why would you believe him, let alone a third-hand edited translation of a book written 200 years after his death by somebody who wasn't there and didn't speak Aramaic?

[alancalverd]

For Alan

"All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made"  I thought this verse might interest you. It is referring to Christ as the One through whom everything in the universe came in to existence. He was fully man and He was GOD. Incredible

I repeat: this is a science forum. Assertion is not proof. Show us the evidence. I agree with "Incredible".   

[duffyd]

Science shows us that matter has never created matter. Science proves that nothing is not a source for something to become.

Neither statement is true. It's good enough for everyday practical chemistry and engineering but these phenomena are not prevented by any known physics. Indeed since the observable universe seems to have a finite age, physics actually demands ex nihilo creation of matter, by simple observation. We just don't fully understand the mechanism or have the ability to replicate it in the lab yet.

Alex Filippenko in the science documentary "The Universe" from PBS said, referring to the double slit experiment, "... when my eyes are closed, it behaves like a wave. But then, at the last second, before it hits the screen I open my eyes and decide to observe it." And the narrator continues: "At that moment, the electrons in essence, become particles."​

The worlds of quantum mechanics and physics push the boundaries of credulity.

Source https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/mind-over-matter-reality-or-myth.855527

[duffyd]

alancalverd

This is a chat forum. Regardless, science develops theories/hypotheses, conducts experiments, draws conclusions. A scientist should be happy to test this  hypothesis.

[duffyd]

Show us the evidence. I agree with "Incredible".   

I have been: Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, Brian "Head" Welch, Drew Brees, Merle Haggard, the list including their testimonies goes on and on through the millions.

[CliveG]

How about the ex nihilo of the laws of physics?

The laws of physics are man-made summaries of observation, nothing more. We observe a universe of finite age, therefore what exists now, once did not exist. Some folks wonder how it happened, some folks assert who did it. Being of an enquiring mind, I prefer the "how".

Nice side-step. But it is not an answer. If you want to be part of a debate about God you cannot limit yourself and your answers.

The laws of physics could be seen as recorded observations of the universe and how it behaves. But what I am referring to are the actual laws that are there whether observed or not. We are not dealing with a Schoedingers cat situation. Gravity exists whether observed or not. And so do all the other laws such as those of thermodynamics and E=mc^2.

Did these laws exist before t=0? Why are all the constants what they are and not just a little different? Why was there a slight excess of matter as opposed to anti-matter? You realize that if we had an equal amount of matter and anti-matter the universe would not have evolved the way it did.

What I am saying is surely the "laws" have to be there before the Big Bang. And if so, where did they come from and why are do they have the forms and constants that they do? Science takes some of these constants which seem arbitrary and changes them ever so slightly. The result is the universe does not evolve anything like it did, but also there seems to be no emergent properties that would allow galaxies and life to evolve.

Try one of Einsteins thought experiments. Imagine there is nothing at all. Then a moment later there is time and space and energy and matter. Why? What in the nothing changed? And what law of physics existed to allow or permit a sudden change from nothing to something. If that laws of physics existed before t=0 then you have to adjust you t=0 to the point where the laws came into existence. If the laws came into existence at the same time as the nothing to something, the question is still - what changed?

Even Lawrence Krauss in his book "A Universe from Nothing" concedes there had to be something.

You prefer the how. Okay how did we go from nothing to something. All you seem to be doing is saying that you do not care about anything before t=0.

[CliveG]

.A century later, influenza continues to defeat every attempt to prevent or cure it,

Apart from the vaccines, and treatment.

Why do you post something which is so obviously wrong?

So, like smallpox and polio, we have defeated influenza? Tell me why I am wrong.

[Bored chemist]

Tell me why I am wrong.

I don't know why you are wrong. I'm guessing at willful ignorance. It's not as if you haven't been told the real facts.
Don't you understand that the vaccine prevents many thousands of cases each year (and reduces the impact of tens of thousands more)?
If you don't understand that, you should learn more before you post more.
If you do understand that many cases are prevented, you shouldn't say " influenza continues to defeat every attempt to prevent or cure it"
But, yet you do.

Why is that?
Why do you say stuff that you should know is nonsense?

[Bored chemist]

Show us the evidence. I agree with "Incredible".   

I have been: Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, Brian "Head" Welch, Drew Brees, Merle Haggard, the list including their testimonies goes on and on through the millions.

Did you not understand the bit about evidence?

[Bored chemist]

My hypothesis about cell radiation spreads. Of course, it it not just 5G

There is no reason to imagine that it is even slightly related to 5G.
Just look at the  spread through the world.

[duffyd]

Something/Somebody had to kick this thing off

Why do you think so?

and Jesus Christ said He was His son.

Not in any bible I have read. He wasn't that stupid. And even if he had, why would you believe him, let alone a third-hand edited translation of a book written 200 years after his death by somebody who wasn't there and didn't speak Aramaic?

In point of fact Jesus Christ said He was the Son of God. We will start with your claim, "Not in any bible I have read. He wasn't that stupid." You reject the New Testament.
1. Why?
2. How stupid was he?
3. Who was he, specifically, and upon what information specifically do you rely upon to inform your belief?

[duffyd]

Why do you think so?

Because it began. The universe wasn't here before the BB.
God, who cannot lie, spoke ordering the universe into existence. The Old Testament makes that point emphatically.

[duffyd]

Nobody "penned the NT", or ever claimed to. It's a random collection of books and letters of vague provenance, collated edited and translated at various times for the benefit of whoever paid for

Prove it. No one penned it? So, it is a miraculous book.

[duffyd]

"He was not from this world. He said so" duffy

"There is no evidence for that statement. Indeed in Mark 8:31 and elsewhere he clearly stated that he was the Son of Man." alan

Explain, "They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world."
And this: "I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father."
And this: "Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on My own, but He sent Me."
And, "Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” So they said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple
More, "And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven."
""Then You are a king!" Pilate said. "You say that I am a king," Jesus answered. "For this reason I was born and have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who belongs to the truth listens to My voice."
"I and the father are one."

 "So you either accept the word of Jesus Christ, or the bullshit put about by those who have cobbled together a spurious religion around his name."  alan
You got that right

[duffyd]

I want to add something to this discussion that is not directly tied to the topic. Jesus was a Jewish man and He went to Jewish people 2,000 years ago preaching His Kingdom. Many, almost every one, who responded favorably and followed Him originally were Jewish folks. Some rejected him. Many others rejected him. He was executed by people who hated him and others who went along for the ride. Jewish people have been treated viciously, terribly, horribly at times by various people allegedly because a few of them were involved 2,000 years ago in his death. It makes no difference whatsoever who rejected him then. He is hated by people regardless their background, their beliefs, from where they came, who there parents were, their age group, male or female, smart or not smart. Those things make zero difference. You and I are responsible for His death. Our sin nailed Him up to die. You and I killed Him, just as the Stones sing.
He went to his own originally. But, He could have gone to any group of people and He would have received the same treatment. Don't discriminate in any fashion against Jewish people for this. It is disgraceful that people have done this.
If anything, they are greatest of all people groups.

[Bored chemist]

God, who cannot lie, spoke ordering the universe into existence. The Old Testament makes that point emphatically.

Do you know what begging the question means?

[syhprum]

I do not think Jesus was unique as an armature would be rabbi, preaching the doctrine of John The Baptist to any crowd that would listen and organizing "miracles" to prove his point.
The same thing happens today in the USA !
What made Jesus memorable was that he was convinced by the anti Roman terrorists to put on a disturbance in Jerusalem which led to the unfortunate results that befell him.
I think Paul should have chosen john the baptist on whom to found his new religion.       

[alancalverd]

Prove it. No one penned it? So, it is a miraculous book.

You just need to read the titles. It is based on the writings of at least eight different characters: Matthew, Mark, Luke, one or possibly two Johns, Paul. Peter, James and Jude, collated and edited over several centuries by umpteen scholars and enthusiasts. It isn't in the least miraculous, compared with say the Book of Mormon which was written by one author with an unknown ink on gold plates then buried in a hill and revealed to Joseph Smith 1400 years later. Now that's what I call a miracle.   

[alancalverd]

You and I are responsible for His death.

Not me, mate. I wasn't around at the time. By all means feel as guilty as makes you happy, or seek psychiatric help, but don't blame others for your personal problems: that reduces you to the moral level of a politician.