[alancalverd]

And what about when I was an atheist and experienced psychic phenomena?

You don't need a god to experience things you can't explain. Charlatans invoke a god to avoid having to explain things or deal with the inexplicable, but it's generally more useful, interesting and profitable (and fun) to investigate.

[alancalverd]

Alan insisted that the trash that we call the N.T, was not even written for 200 years after Christ was crucified and raised from the grave.

No I didn't. I never suggested he was "raised from the grave", only that if a rock can be moved into place by humans, it can be moved away by the same agents. If God had done it, there would have been no need to move the stone. This the bible seems to contradict rather than support the idea of resurrection.

Since the Acts of the Apostles and all the Epistles deal with what people did after Jesus died, they cannot possibly have been written when he was alive.

It's worth reading the NT before basing your philosophy on a misinterpretation of it, and always remember to engage brain before operating mouth.

[Colin2B]

Your post is quite logical and makes sense. But what happens if a God decides to involve a person in a phenomenon without being invoked? Like my knowing a biker would die about 5 minutes. I got the impression that God did that to demonstrate his existence to me. And what about when I was an atheist and experienced psychic phenomena?

I suppose it means that you lack the proof that God involved.

The situation is worse than just lacking proof - which is correct anyway.
Christians, who incidentally believe in God, also believe that information derived from Tarot cards, spirits, psychic phenomena, etc originate from the devil. The idea is that he gives away true titbits of information to the gullible so that they will believe the big lie he gives it to them eg 5G + Covid19. So Christians would say you are an agent of the devil, and you have no proof that you are not.

[CliveG]

Remember the movie "The Truman Show". They used technology and spies and manipulation to prevent him from knowing what the truth of his existence was. God is like that, only almost infinitely greater.

So, evil and exploitative then.
Nice.

Trust you to extend my analogy past the similarities.

[CliveG]

Your post is quite logical and makes sense. But what happens if a God decides to involve a person in a phenomenon without being invoked? Like my knowing a biker would die about 5 minutes. I got the impression that God did that to demonstrate his existence to me. And what about when I was an atheist and experienced psychic phenomena?

I suppose it means that you lack the proof that God involved.

The situation is worse than just lacking proof - which is correct anyway.
Christians, who incidentally believe in God, also believe that information derived from Tarot cards, spirits, psychic phenomena, etc originate from the devil. The idea is that he gives away true titbits of information to the gullible so that they will believe the big lie he gives it to them eg 5G + Covid19. So Christians would say you are an agent of the devil, and you have no proof that you are not.

My experience is what tells me that I am in contact with good and not evil. I have dealt with evil and demons and can recognize them for what they are. The Christian Church knows that demons can be deceptive and use small powers to entice people into greater evil. Hence they give a blanket ban. But if one know the rules and knows how both God and Satan work then one can use various modalities for good.

I asked a clairvoyant if she knew whether her answers came from good or bad and whether she first invoked God to protect her from the evil messages. Her reply was that she gave the answers and no idea whether they originated from good or evil. Evil people attract more evil and good people get good help.

You really have no idea of the type of experiences I have had and how they have taught me the lessons of spirit and God. If evil was behind my psychic events I would not get the good results that I get. That is proof enough.

Electrosmog and depressed immune systems and increased mutation rates have been well studied by scientists. The Telco industry is like many industries that suppress any reports of harm by them. The Telcos are the most powerful industry we have ever seen. One can mock and discredit electrosmog by using totally ridiculous claims which any rational person would see as ridiculous. Like saying 5G is direct cause of Covid-19 disease. Rubbish. Electrosmog is subtle and slow and is a trigger. Like tobacco smoke and air pollution. 5G may have aided the mutation rates and hence SARS-Covid-2 virus but that can only be inferred and not proved. In the long term (5-10years) electrosmog may be very bad for human health.

[CliveG]

And what about when I was an atheist and experienced psychic phenomena?

You don't need a god to experience things you can't explain. Charlatans invoke a god to avoid having to explain things or deal with the inexplicable, but it's generally more useful, interesting and profitable (and fun) to investigate.

I have still not heard an explanation from you about how I could know for certain a biker was about to die in about 5 minutes.

Or how I changed a mans life and saved his marriage by confronting the demon in him.

Or the accounts of mental telepathy.

Or the haunting by the suicide - and the 6 weeks before and change afterward.

[CliveG]

But when you go to a doctor and tell them you have neurological problems like pain and memory loss and tingling sensations, you do not expect them to tell you it should not be happening because all the current scientific tests do not indicate any known problem.

Have you tried fMRI tests?

No. I have been to a neurologist and she did a standard MRI. Because of the number of cases she had where people came to her and the patients determined that electrosmog was the problem, she was of the opinion I was probably correct that I was being affected by microwave emfs. My doctor said that at first he thought I was crazy but said he has changed his opinion. The evidence is mounting even if it is slow. It cannot be covered up forever.

[alancalverd]

There's certainly enough in your experience to warrant investigation, but none of it confirms the existence of an invisible third party. 

[CliveG]

God did answer my daughter's prayers when he got lung cancer and they were told he had a less than 10% chance.

Perhaps God enjoyed the prayers He received as a result of giving that innocent man cancer.

Your basis for God is that he is responsible for everything and that everything bad is not physics or evolution or mans faults but must be attributed to God. And that God is evil and takes perverse pleasure in suffering.

My only comment is "Good God. Did I really read that." Is God responsible for your illogical deductions also?

Do you reject the possible existence of God based on your hate for your image of God (which came from where?), or from some sort of rational explanation?

God only intervenes for the greater good and usually only for small answers to prayers that do not affect the overall picture.

I must admit to being bothered about whether God could have planned and caused the pandemic and the dire consequences. I think that part of kind and good justice and oversight might mean consequences by way of punishment. I know I said that Satan does the evil and God lets him but I am having doubts. It is possible that God punishes in order to achieve good. Humankind has lost its spiritual path and evil is spreading because of greed and materialism.

Good people will die and should not. But there is always collateral damage, and a crisis will spur the good people to take action. It may not be a bad thing to have some fear of doing bad and invoking Gods punishment.

[CliveG]

There's certainly enough in your experience to warrant investigation, but none of it confirms the existence of an invisible third party.

I appreciate your honest comment. 

[Bored chemist]

Remember the movie "The Truman Show". They used technology and spies and manipulation to prevent him from knowing what the truth of his existence was. God is like that, only almost infinitely greater.

So, evil and exploitative then.
Nice.

Trust you to extend my analogy past the similarities.

Trust you not to recognise the similarity.

[CliveG]

Remember the movie "The Truman Show". They used technology and spies and manipulation to prevent him from knowing what the truth of his existence was. God is like that, only almost infinitely greater.

So, evil and exploitative then.
Nice.

Trust you to extend my analogy past the similarities.

Trust you not to recognise the similarity.

Touche. I did not know whether to groan or smile, so I did both.

[Jolly2]

One only needs to look at the world around them to see that only God can create life.

Define what your god is?

Actually anything can become a God to a person. It's what they value most or consider most important what they worship in ignorance or awareness.

[hamdani yusuf]

One only needs to look at the world around them to see that only God can create life.

Define what your god is?

Actually anything can become a God to a person. It's what they value most or consider most important what they worship in ignorance or awareness.

Then they have redefined the word god. Many cultures don't consider their gods as the most important things in their lives.

noun
1.
(in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
2.
(in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity.

[CliveG]

South Africa does have some experts and is doing some things right.

Professor Karim is leading the ministerial advisory panel. Smart and well-spoken and does not mince his words. This is a great explanation of the strategy for dealing with Covid -19. A lot better than the PR "health consultants" that many media channels use.

This is long but informative. One can jump around to get an idea.

He came on again this morning and once more explained with clear examples to answer questions from what seems a foreign person asking key questions. He explained that SA had built a central command center full of video screens to control any problems with the World Soccer Cup, and they have repurposed that for the Corona virus fight. Once more he explains that they provide data-based explanations to the ministers. His explanations  can be followed and understood.

He also said that they are in close contact with China who are very helpful. Providing test kits for the phase where SA needs a lot of them.

I think other countries could learn a lot from this man.

[CliveG]

This mornings video (he has a dry sense of humor).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=9&v=Hm0kNelgXVs&feature=emb_logo

He talks about HIV and Covid-19.

[duffyd]

Alan insisted that the trash that we call the N.T, was not even written for 200 years after Christ was crucified and raised from the grave.

No I didn't. I never suggested he was "raised from the grave", ***HOLD ON Dr. AL!, you most certainly did. You quoted numerous words from the N.T.  proving HE was a Rabbi. Don't pick and choose. If you believe those words, you believe the words about the resurrection.*** only that if a rock can be moved into place by humans, it can be moved away by the same agents. If God had done it, there would have been no need to move the stone. This the bible seems to contradict rather than support the idea of resurrection.

***Who would roll it away, Al? The Romans stole it? The disciples who would use the corpse to prove HE rose from the dead?

Since the Acts of the Apostles and all the Epistles deal with what people did after Jesus died, they cannot possibly have been written when he was alive.

It's worth reading the NT before basing your philosophy on a misinterpretation of it, and always remember to engage brain before operating mouth.

Back at you bro. You haven't and I have. Suzanne holds the mirror.

Well, Alan, it was 200 years since when exactly? that they finally got around to writing the N.T.? (Do you honestly believe you can out know me in a debate on the N.T.?) From the moment of His miraculous conception? From the day of HIS virgin birth? From the day HE was crucified for healing on the Sabbath? When does your clock start?

"Since the Acts of the Apostles and all the Epistles deal with what people did after Jesus died, they cannot possibly have been written when he was alive." Big Al

You've heard of the Gospels, I suppose? They were likely being recorded as JESUS was hangin out with sinners, healing the sick on Sabbath days, being worshiped by the whores who found in HIM what they'd been searching for all their lives.

I've got to give old Al at least some credit. When he tries to pull fast ones, (which is all he relies upon, not knowing anything but the very basics) at least his nonsense has some sophistication to it. It is useless and funny, but it takes him more than 3 seconds to put together, unlike Kerosene who specializes in not knowing anything and revels in it. 

[duffyd]

There's certainly enough in your experience to warrant investigation, but none of it confirms the existence of an invisible third party.

I know this was intended for Clive, but you hit on some truth regardless, and you should be commended.

There are millions and millions and millions who will tell anyone willing to listen that they know Jesus Christ is alive, that He rose from the dead and lives inside them. That deserves investigation. That deserves your total, uninterrupted attention.

1. It is true that they said those things
2. What they said is true based on everything we know about GodMan that has been carefully preserved for us mostly by Jewish folks who took great care to pass down important events from their interactions with the GOD of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David. They were jealous over their relationship with HIM as were the men and women who wrote down and copied HIS words into the books which became the N.T.

[CliveG]

I made a summary for my daughter:

The bottom line is that cell towers are very bad, cell phone use should be minimized and WiFi should not be used unless necessary.

My symptoms. Which varied depending on exposure and time.
Typical radiation values (in peak uW/sqm) are: 3,000 in old house next to tower, 300 next to other towers, 30 when I screen our old house, 2 in suburbia away from a tower, 0.2 in our new house, 0.02 in the country-side and on holiday. The legal limit is 10,000,000 which uses heating as a criteria.

A sharp rise in tinnitus
Noticed that a drop in hearing which got worse with time
Disturbed sleep waking tired scrambled dreams
Memory loss and problems spelling.
Mental confusion.
Skin growths on my forehead.
Clumsiness and dyslexia loss of balance
Four episodes of brief full body convulsions
Hand tremors
Nausea
Headaches
Anxiety and irritability.
Irregular heatbeat at times.
Higher than usual blood pressure.
Peripheral neuropathy in feet and toes.
Frequent diarrhoea
Severe and sharp pain in my right eye socket near my nose
3 metal tooth fillings fractured and broke
Knee replacement healing reversed when exposed
Burning sensation in my right hip where a nerve was being compressed.
Sharp stabbing pain in my side where I have a neuroma and the nerves have no myelin sheath.

My wife had similar symptoms (excepting teeth and knee) but not as bad. However, she had had facial basal cell carcinoma and a melanoma on her chest. She said if her cell phone was next to her at night she would feel unwell.

Our dogs showed depression and hearing loss.

The neighbours on the other side of the tower moved out of their house to live in their office because they were getting too sick. He had his prostate cancer return. They were also getting allergies.

Our grandson experienced epileptic seizures at 18 months of age after 5 month of visiting us at the tower home.

The neurologist said a patient who was getting sick with neurological symptoms eventually figured out he was getting ill at work and recovering on the weekends. If he worked in the company basement he had no problems. The basement had no WiFi.

A 17 year old went through a growth spurt and got a rare cancer on his upper right arm. A tower was recently erected outside their home and his bedroom. The cancer is associated with too many Xrays.

A nearby tower had a couple move close to it. They started getting ill and moved out after 6 months and then recovered. They had no idea that it could have been the tower.

Our symptoms have mostly disappeared now that we are locked down in our new house where the radiation is quite low. However, both my wife and I cannot be near active cell phones. We deactivate all WiFi because it is enough to make me ill the next day. I did not put my cell phone on aeroplane mode when I lay down one afternoon and I got a bad headache within 30 minutes. Put on aeroplane mode and the headache disappeared in 10 minutes. I still wear aluminium mesh beanie because the suburbia radiation is still to high and affects me.

On three occasions I have been on holiday for 5 days where the radiation is very low compared to suburbia. I felt great and did not need pain tablets.

My wife and I use our phones in loudspeaker mode, and kept them in another room if we leave them on, and sleep with the cell phones on the far side of the house.

Horrible way to live to avoid radiation sickness but what can we do?

[duffyd]

I made a summary for my daughter:

The bottom line is that cell towers are very bad, cell phone use should be minimized and WiFi should not be used unless necessary.

My symptoms. Which varied depending on exposure and time.
Typical radiation values (in peak uW/sqm) are: 3,000 in old house next to tower, 300 next to other towers, 30 when I screen our old house, 2 in suburbia away from a tower, 0.2 in our new house, 0.02 in the country-side and on holiday. The legal limit is 10,000,000 which uses heating as a criteria.

A sharp rise in tinnitus
Noticed that a drop in hearing which got worse with time
Disturbed sleep waking tired scrambled dreams
Memory loss and problems spelling.
Mental confusion.
Skin growths on my forehead.
Clumsiness and dyslexia loss of balance
Four episodes of brief full body convulsions
Hand tremors
Nausea
Headaches
Anxiety and irritability.
Irregular heatbeat at times.
Higher than usual blood pressure.
Peripheral neuropathy in feet and toes.
Frequent diarrhoea
Severe and sharp pain in my right eye socket near my nose
3 metal tooth fillings fractured and broke
Knee replacement healing reversed when exposed
Burning sensation in my right hip where a nerve was being compressed.
Sharp stabbing pain in my side where I have a neuroma and the nerves have no myelin sheath.

My wife had similar symptoms (excepting teeth and knee) but not as bad. However, she had had facial basal cell carcinoma and a melanoma on her chest. She said if her cell phone was next to her at night she would feel unwell.

Our dogs showed depression and hearing loss.

I sympathize, Clive. Same exact things happened to me the day I got married.