North Sea ship crash, and super spuds

Plus, what's under the hood of an electric car battery...
14 March 2025
Presented by Chris Smith
Production by Rhys James, Chris Smith.

SOLONG Martime and Coastguard Agency.jpg

North Sea Ship Crash

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On this edition of the Naked Scientists Podcast, what are the potential environmental impacts of the ship crash in the North Sea? Also, we find out what's being done to reduce the risk from engineered pandemics, and reveal what's going on inside the best electric vehicle batteries on the market. Then, it's off to Lincolnshire to profile the bruise-resistant, quicker-cooking potatoes of the future...

In this episode

North Sea Ship Crash

North Sea ship crash prompts environmental concerns
Simon Boxall, University of Southampton

Police have begun a criminal investigation into the cause of a collision between a cargo ship and a tanker in the North Sea. The Portuguese-flagged Solong and the US-registered tanker Stena Immaculate crashed off the East Yorkshire coast, with thousands of barrels of aviation fuel leaking into the sea. Simon Boxall - an oceanographer at the University of Southampton - has been telling me what happened, and what the environmental impacts might be…

Simon - As far as we can tell, the Stena Immaculate, the vessel carrying this jet fuel, was at anchor about 10 miles off the coast of Hull, and the other vessel, the Portuguese-flagged Solong, crashed into it at full speed, about 15 knots, and it was travelling from the North Southward into the North Sea. We don't know why or how the Solong managed to hit the Stena ship, but we do know that it hit its square on and it caused extensive damage, damaging both hulls and interlocking the two ships.

Chris - Are there not technologies, in fact decades-old technologies, that are at play to stop this kind of thing happening? Things as simple as radar, which these ships should by law have to be using?

Simon - There are. These days the technology is amazing. You know, on the ships we use, if I go off to the bridge, the radar is no longer the old-fashioned radar of a sweeping hand showing blips on the screen. These days, modern technology means the radar is superimposed onto a chart. The chart includes the location of the ships, so the ships don't just show up as blips, but actually show up as ships, because the ships themselves transmit a sort of an ID, a bit like aircraft do. And so you can see, as the sort of chart illuminates, you actually get a picture of the ship on the chart, with the name of the ship, what it's doing at anchor, along with its size and even its cargo sometimes.

So, if they were watching the screen, whoever was on the bridge was watching the screen, then the Stenna Immaculate should have shown up very clearly miles before the Solong hit it.

Chris - But equally, the ship at anchor would have been watching these screens. They would have seen a vessel on a collision course, and it's up to them also to be proactive, because the regulations for preventing collisions at sea say it's everyone's responsibility. So, shouldn't they have been jumping on the radio and saying: ‘Approaching vessel, you're on a collision course’?

Simon - We don't know if they were or not. There's not enough information yet, but several people have said, well, why didn't they just up anchor and move out of the way? The problem is that on a vessel like the Stenna Immaculate, first of all, you've got to raise the anchor, and that's not a trivial task. We're talking about 20 minutes, half an hour, but also you've got to fire the engines up. These aren't engines that you can sort of put the key in the ignition, turn the ignition on, and move off like a car. These things take time to fire up. I won't use the word steam, because they're not steam driven, but enough sort of power to then be able to move. So, there's no way that the Stenna Immaculate could have moved out of the way, and the rules are fairly clear. If you've got a ship that's at anchor, there will be a watch on the bridge at all times, but the watch on the bridge may not have realised that the Portuguese ship was heading straight for them until quite late on. We don't know yet whether they did send a transmission to say that the ship was on a collision course. Time will tell when the inquiry comes out.

Chris - What are we most concerned about now then?

Simon - Two ships collided, and we had this huge fireball, and the initial concern, obviously, is for life and loss of life at sea. The fact that, tragically, they lost one person from the Solong, or rather that one person's missing, and assumed dead, is terrible. But given the scale of this collision, given the number of people involved, and given the size of that fireball that we all saw, the fact that there were not more casualties or deaths, I think is quite miraculous.

The two ships were interlocked, and obviously the initial concern is to put the fire out. It's too dangerous to go onto the ship. The jet fuel itself is quite toxic, so you don't really want to get too close to it without the right equipment.

And there was, of course, early concerns that the Solong was carrying 15 containers of the very highly toxic sodium cyanide, which, when it's hot, you have a fire blazing, and it hits water, becomes quite dangerous. It becomes a sort of hydrogen cyanide. So, there was caution, I think, before rescuers could move in to actually start securing the ships.

There was concern that the Solong would sink. They were quite happy that the Stena Immaculate was stable. The concern then is in terms of pollution. Now, the Stena Immaculate didn't lose as much jet fuel as was at first feared. The other tanks remained intact. And that really is a good indication of modern rules and regulations on ship structure and construction. The Solong did lose some containers. We don't know what was in those containers. There will be some pollution incidents.There will be some impact. But I think the impact that we're going to see is far less than it would have been had the entire ship lost its cargo, both the Solong and the Stena Immaculate.

Chris - Nevertheless, there is still going to be some impact from whatever volume of aviation fuel has ended up in the sea, ending up in the sea, as well as any other boat fuel, etc, that's been lost overboard. So, what will be the immediate response to this? How do we mitigate against the environmental onward impacts of this?

Simon - There are three simple rules of spills at sea. I think the first one is obviously don't. But then we assume that accidents happened, nothing's foolproof. And so the next stage is to contain as much as possible. And that means putting booms around the vessels. It also means trying to plug the holes. And then you get to the cleanup stage, you pick up as much as you can. That's using a combination of surface pumps, and what we call skimmers. And those skimmers literally skim the surface of the water to remove oil.

And that's trying to pick up as much of the oil as possible. The final stage is down to a combination of nature taking over and using dispersants and other methods of trying to disperse the oil. Interestingly enough, people assume crude oil is about as bad as it can get. Crude oil is far less toxic than some of the refined oils like aviation fuel or jet fuel. Jet fuel is a little bit like diesel, somewhere between diesel and paraffin, really. And so it is quite toxic. And it does have a big impact on particularly fisheries in the area. So, there are concerns that we'll see impact from fisheries. And we'll also see impact on stuff on the seabed.
Now the volumes, as far as I'm aware, that have been spilt are relatively small. And a lot of the stuff that was spilt, as we saw from the fireballs, has burnt off. So it's transferred the pollution problem from the ocean to the atmosphere. And that does make life a little bit easier.

Chris - Presumably now there's going to be some scientific initiatives to try to gather as much data and learn as much from this unfortunate incident as we can.

Simon - Absolutely. I mean, when we work in oil spills, and we're looking at the science of oil spills, which we do, we are ambulance chasers at the end of the day. Obviously, and rightly, the public get concerned if we would go around and dump loads of oil into the ocean for research purposes. So we have to make the best of incidents like this just to look at, first of all, how the oil behaves. At Southampton I spend a lot of time looking at trying to measure the thickness and type of oil from aircraft so we can look at focusing cleanup operations. But at the same time, learning how the environment, how nature, copes with this oil. And although we can do laboratory tests and things on certain types of shellfish and things, ultimately the only way we really learn about oil spills is by being on the ground and measuring, observing and seeing the impact of these terrible incidents.

A woman wearing a blue facemask.

Cambridge body aims to reduce risk from engineered pandemics
Clare Bryant, University of Cambridge

Five years ago this week, the World Health Organisation declared COVID-19 to be a pandemic. The virus that had spread from Wuhan in China went on to shut down the world; we estimate that 20 million perished; economies spent trillions, and the longer term effects - on young people’s education and job prospects and therefore ultimately their life expectancy - will rumble on for a generation. It showed us just how vulnerable the world is to emerging pathogens. Now we still don’t know where COVID came from, or what factors led to its spread in the first place. As such, it may well be down to human error and was, in effect, an “engineered pandemic”. What we do know for sure is that accidents happen, and dread diseases have escaped from labs on many occasions. Safeguarding against this happening again is the priority of an initiative being set up at Cambridge University called The Engineered Pandemics Risk Management Programme. It’s the brainchild of vet and immunologist Clare Bryant…

Clare - It's kind of a flexible beast. We had a meeting where we considered this quite carefully as to what actually is the definition of an engineered pandemic. And it can be anything from the deliberate release of a pathogen, or an accidental release of a pathogen, all the way through to somebody actually manipulating a pathogen to make it more deadly. But in all honesty, pathogens are pretty efficient at being deadly anyway. So we think the most likely thing that's going to happen is the potential for somebody to deliberately release a pathogen, or an accidental release will kind of make most sense.

Chris - Who's actually got the potential to do something like that? Do you need to be a government level actor? Or could someone just do this in their garden shed?

Clare - You do need the right facilities to handle these things. And we've also thought quite carefully about this. Overall, we think it's not highly likely, we think it's possible. And it's that possibility that we're really considering. And I think if you have the right kind of facilities, you can actually do this, but you'd need to be able to have access to a pathogen, you need to be able to grow it, you need to be able to have a means of distributing it. There's a whole host of complex factors, which make it less likely that somebody can do it from their garden shed.

Chris - So it's more the idea that accidents happen. And we need to be prepared for the fact that if you're working on these things, you could accidentally see one escape.

Clare - Potentially, yes. One of the key features then within that is if somebody gets sick, what's causing it? The difference between an accidental or an engineered pandemic versus a normal pandemic, so to speak, is that you usually have a bit of warning that something's coming, but with an accidental release, then you don't know.

Key to this is a rapid understanding of what something is in order to be able to institute an action plan. Those are the kinds of issues that we're thinking about. Beyond that, planning is pretty similar, whether it's an accidental pandemic or an evolving pandemic, because the action plan becomes pretty similar, but actually knowing what you're dealing with is the real difference for an engineered pandemic.

Chris - So, given you've identified that risk, what do you propose to actually do about it? What is this initiative really all about?

Clare - First of all, an important element of this plan is to work with policymakers to understand the potential risks, the potential strategies and what one might want to do about it. From the science perspective, we'll be thinking about model pathogens. What would a disease look like? How would we diagnose it? How might it spread? And how would we work out what's going on and how to intervene? What are the earliest steps to intervene? Rather than thinking about things in a pathogen-centric way, ‘this is all about COVID-19 or avian flu,’ we're actually thinking very much about more general rules that we can apply and learn from using existing data sets to actually learn what might happen and learn how to intervene.

Chris - You mentioned COVID-19, I was talking to the WHO's Director of Emerging Infection just the other day, and she said, we don't know where COVID-19 came from, arguing that they must be entertaining, seriously, the possibility that that was an engineered pathogen. So how does what you're proposing differ from the current framework that we've got to try to pursue outcomes like that?

Clare - In some ways, it does and in some ways, it doesn't. For us, our focus is very much on identification. And that is now a bit more of a challenge than it was because a lot of the surveillance programmes have been shut down. So, it's actually quite hard to work out what's going on globally and to distinguish exactly what's causing an infection. So, I think there's elements of similarity across both programmes, but it is very much thinking about likely candidates as well.

Prior to that, we were very focused on flu and perhaps we should have thought a bit more sensibly because there was MERS and there was the original SARS-CoV pathogen that came through. And we kind of all happily let that sit in a parallel universe. So I think the idea with this programme is to think very much about all possibilities and work accordingly rather than just focusing on one or two pathogens.

Chris - Is this unique or have you got competition or other people doing something similar and you're joining that party? Or are you really striking out on your own saying, well, look, no one's doing it this way. And this is what we're going to try and do.

Clare - I think there's a combination of factors.There are a number of pandemic centres around the globe. And that's good because we all need to work together. I think from our perspective, we're relatively unique in thinking about accidental and deliberately release and thinking about those first steps to begin with. And also, the other really important thing is that we're working with policymakers to make sure that we're thinking about this in the national scale and in the global scale, such that we can really think about ways in which we can inform government and help government and devise suitable strategies. I think those are the two elements that are a bit different about what we're doing.

Chris - What does your vision look like then? If we sort of wind forward in time, the mature initiative, what will that actually look like?

Clare - Well, what we hope we'll have is some really good plans that we can develop with government to say, OK, something's happened. What do we do? So instead of sitting there and making it up as we went along, which was a little bit like what we had to do in the COVID-19 pandemic., what we're really trying to think about is having formulated plans that we can work out what we would do, almost like a roadmap. What's the ideal roadmap you need to deal with a pandemic when it arrives? Also importantly for me, most people that get an infection, a pandemic-like infection, the people who die tend to die from a very severe inflammatory response.
And so we're reopening therapeutics to actually look at this area, which had been relatively neglected. And it was really clear during the COVID-19 pandemic that this is what was killing people. So, it's elements in and around that, that we'll be looking at detection, intervention, treatment and prevention.

Chris - But isn't this what the COVID inquiry is for? And that's taking years and costing millions, tens of millions.

Clare - The COVID inquiry is looking to find what went on. We're not looking to find what went on. We're looking for ways of intervening now using the data that we learnt from. I can't say many things were good from COVID-19, but a couple of things were. And the amount of data that's come out that allows us to mine that data and work out what was going on and work out what might go on under other circumstances is key. Understanding the mistakes that happened in the past will help inform what we do moving forwards, but we don't need to wait. We can move on and make sure we've got a roadmap that's lining up in place while we're informed about what happens from the COVID-19 pandemic.

This is a picture of an electric car being charged

Engineers look under the hood of electric car batteries
Rhodri Jenkins, UCL

We’re going to examine the EV market - which is currently dominated by Elon Musk’s Tesla and the Chinese company BYD. Both manufacturers have released limited data on the batteries that sit at the heart of their technology, so the structure, characteristics and performance remain shrouded in mystery. And there’s nothing engineers like more than a mystery to unpick! Which is why a group of researchers have been buying up and taking apart these batteries to find out how they work! We asked Rhodri Jervis - an expert on batteries at University College London - to take a look under the hood and guide us through what the paper just published on the work has revealed…

Rhodri - This paper is a type of paper we call a teardown analysis of commercially produced batteries by some major battery manufacturers. And the point of the paper really, and papers like this, is for the researchers to do a comprehensive analysis of what goes into the battery, how the battery is made and how the batteries perform. When you buy a battery commercially, it often comes with a data sheet, but that data sheet can be quite basic really, so basic information about things like voltage limits, temperature, operation limits, capacity, how quickly they can charge and discharge. Maybe if you're lucky, they might tell you what chemistry is actually in the battery, but not much beyond that. And so these kinds of papers can be really useful for researchers such as myself to be able to understand what's going on in the battery, particularly for people doing modelling work, because they can use all of these numbers and stats to parameterise their models.

But also I think of great interest to the public as people are getting more and more conscious about batteries. I think these kinds of papers, though they are obviously written in an academic language, they can provide some real insight into the incredible amounts of engineering and material science that goes into lithium ion batteries working as they do.

Chris - Can we actually learn a huge amount though? Do the manufacturers not try and protect their tech by making it hard to tear these things apart in a meaningful way? Do you not destroy it in the process and then that negates your learning? Or actually, are they quite easy to pick apart, see how they work and then copy them?

Rhodri - They are very hard to take apart and one should know what one's doing to do that. So, I'd recommend that people do not do this at home. But the most important thing is to obviously completely discharge the batteries before we open them. We open batteries in our lab fairly routinely, but there are very strict safety protocols to do that and for good reason. Lithium ion batteries are very energy dense and they have some materials in them that might be toxic and whatnot. So I would implore people not to take the batteries apart themselves.

And because of that, I guess people see batteries as a bit of a black box, you know, it's something that you don't really get to see inside all that often. And so this kind of work can be really enlightening in that way. You can tell an awful lot from these types of teardown analysis. The manufacturers might keep the exact chemistry of the battery somewhat secret, but it's quite easy to tell what that is once you've opened up the battery, as long as you've got the kind of analytical equipment that we have in universities.

But there are some secrets that are very hard to know, even with a well equipped lab taking these batteries apart. And one of the key ones is the special formulations that they use in the electrolyte. This is the liquid that is in the battery that kind of helps the lithium ions travel from the positive to negative terminals. There are lots of special things called additives put in these batteries. And a lot of these additives actually get decomposed in the first few cycles of the battery's life. And those cycles will happen in the factory when they're made. They're called formation cycles. And that forms a really important, very, very thin protective layer on the surface of the graphite particles on the negative electrode. That's something called an SEI, and it's really critical to how the batteries perform over a long time.

And because the additives that manufacturers put in those electrolytes tend to be pretty much consumed in that process, it's very hard to reverse engineer that. So, I'd say that's the area that's the hardest to understand and probably the closest guarded secret in the industry. But things like the structure of the electrodes, how the cells are built and put together, and even the types of materials that are in the positive electrode where there's more choice on those materials, that's all possible to understand from this kind of paper.

Chris - It's a bit, I suppose, like microchips. We know how microchips work, but to actually make them, to have the machine capable of operating at the resolution it does, to etch silicon the way it does, that's where the real money is, isn't it? So, although you can pick the battery apart and say, ‘oh yes, I can see how that works’, there must be elements to the engineering and the manufacture that are much harder to unpick or reverse decode or decipher from what you see in front of you, and that's where the IP is.

Rhodri - Yeah, I think that's true. The batteries operate on multiple different length scales, right? There are important things happening right at the atomic scale. And maybe one of the key things that the contrast of the two batteries in this paper is how important actually the sort of macro scale engineering is in the batteries as well, how you put all of these things together in a particular can or whatever it is. In this paper they compare two really quite different batteries actually.

The Tesla 4680 is what we'd call a cylindrical cell, quite a large cylindrical cell, and inside that all of the electrodes are rolled up in a spiral that the Americans call a jelly roll, that you might think of as more like a Swiss roll.

And then the other cell by BYD is called a blade cell, and this is nearly a metre in length and with a kind of flat form factor, so very relatively thin, really long. And that's the kind of cell that you might have in a laptop or a phone, but just on a bigger scale. And the different decisions that you make for those different form factors of battery really are quite key, and there's reasons for doing both.

Chris - What did they actually find? When you read through the paper, what leapt out at you as, ‘well, that's a surprise or that's interesting’? What were the main findings about this?

Rhodri - I think some of the approaches that have been taken in both of these cells were relatively well known to people in the field, I suppose. Particularly the Tesla cell, there was an announcement a few years ago about how they were going about making these particular cells, various different things like the so-called tabless design, for example, were known about. But I think this paper does a really good job of going into forensic detail in that, and so providing parameters and numbers that are really useful for modelling and also confirming some things that perhaps were suspected but maybe not known in detail.
So we get a range of things from photographs of the internal structure and components to chemical analysis of those components, electrical and thermal analysis of their performance when they're charging and discharging, and basically a full parameterisation of the cell. As I said earlier, some of the electrolyte components are unknowable because they get consumed, but other components do stay and they've done a chemical analysis of those as well.

Gene edited potatoes

Potato CRISPR: Gene-edited spuds fit for the future
Vidyanath Gururajan and Barbara Correia, B-Hive Innovations

As the world searches for more efficient and hardier crops to feed our growing population, one company has been looking into turning the humble potato into a super spud. The work was carried out with the support of UK Research and Innovation. Will Tingle has the story…

Will - Hi, could I get one large chips, please? Thank you.

Potatoes. Boil them, mash them, stick them in a stew.

We love potatoes here in the UK. In 2023, the average person here ate 66 kilograms of spuds. But the potato is in a spot of bother right now.

Extreme weather conditions like flood and drought are lowering the number of potatoes we can harvest here in the UK. Brexit has caused a labour shortage, meaning new potato farms are struggling to stay afloat. Further afield, Russia's invasion of Ukraine has greatly reduced the number that we can import from Europe's breadbasket.

And because of all these factors, the impact of any wasted potato is now felt exponentially more. So to see what's being done to combat these problems, I headed up to B-Hive Innovations in Lincoln to see what their game plan is now that the chips are down.

Vidyanath - Hello, my name is Vidyanath Gururajan. I am CEO of B-Hive Innovations Limited and we are a commercial R&D business in agriculture.

Will - In the pantheon of food, why did you go for the potato? I've spent nearly two decades of my life in the world of potatoes.

Vidyanath - Potatoes are one of the largest growing staple crops. It's exposed to a lot of climate change implications that we are facing. Now, I watched a documentary not too long ago called The Martian, in which a man called Mark Watney was stuck on a red planet. He seemed to subsist quite well on just potatoes.

Will - Is that another thing, another reason why you might have picked them because they are pretty omni-nutritious?

Vidyanath - I'm biased, but I would say yes. Potatoes and milk, I think the satiety that it brings can last longer.

Will - And was there a particular species of potato that you've focused on?

Vidyanath - In this particular aspect of the project that we are looking at, we got Solanum tuberosum, which is a variety that we picked called Maris Piper, which is the most known and used variety in the UK.

The second one that we picked for our experimentation is Solanum phureja, but you then make it a hybrid potato, bringing phureja and tuberosum together to create these varieties.

Will - What are the, I won't say design flaws, but what are the aspects of the potato that you're hoping to improve?
Vidyanath - I like the challenge, but this is a very interesting challenge that we are facing as someone who grows crops, because you've got extremities of climate change happening that you're seeing, whether it's too wet, no water at all, too much of sun, no sun at all, that has an implication on the crop.

The second thing that I would like to say is we are in an age where everybody's racing towards net zero. At the same time, the chemicals that we used to increase the productivity and therefore yield in the crop during the industrial revolution and agricultural revolution are being steadily withdrawn, rightly so in certain aspects, because of the pesticides used and everything else. And then finally, we also want the food to be as cheap as possible.

Simply put, these are conflictory challenges. A continuous improvement or status quo won't solve these problems. If we have to solve these together, I strongly believe we need to break the glass ceiling and that's where innovation comes in. And in this particular subject, I see gene editing as a very useful tool which could help us fast track our innovation to solve those challenges that I mentioned. So the key to unlocking a potato's potential lies in its genes. We all have a recipe book in our DNA that dictates how we look and act and the potato is no different.

The genes dictate how well a spud grows, how quickly it cooks, how resilient it is to hard knocks that would render it otherwise pretty inedible. So if we can tweak the genes responsibly, perhaps we can turn a puny potato into a super spud.

Barbara - Hello, my name is Barbara Cujalle and I'm Principal Research Scientist here at Beehive Innovations.

Will - How do you know what you're looking for? As in, how can you look at a strand of G's, C's, A's and T's and then go, that is what we want to alter or omit, this is what we want to do in order to make it hardier or quicker cooking, as opposed to something else where you look at it and go, oh that's just skin colour, I don't want to touch that bit.

Barbara - We have what are called reference genomes. So when you sequence and you have the information of the entire genome, you get this entire information. This is part one.

Part two then is actually a combination of what you have now acquired as your sequence genome and what you already know from other works that other scientists have done in the lab regarding these traits. So each trait, each capacity, ability of an organism will be defined with a gene in its genome. So we know which genes will allow a potato to cook quicker or to not bruise as easily.

So once we know what to look for, we go to our big puzzle and we find in our maris piper, what it is, and that's the one we will target in our studies.

Will - How do you then alter that gene in order to make it into what you want?

Barbara - We use a technique called CRISPR-Cas9. So this technique is actually not new, it's a method that was adapted from a naturally occurring process in bacteria. Bacteria use this to defend themselves from viruses, meaning bacteria are able to cut pieces from infecting viruses and insert them into their own DNA.

So this entire technology is based around this and the way we do this, we use something called guide RNA. So this will tell the CRISPR-Cas9, which is this enzyme that will cut, where it should cut. We use this guide RNA that's now, for example, targeting our bruising resistance gene.

We take it there with our guide RNA and then CRISPR-Cas9 will cut it. This cut makes it deactivate this protein, this enzyme, so it's a protein with a function. In this case, the function is to make the tuberosum go black.

So we cut it and it no longer works, meaning the potato now will be more resistant to bruising. The beauty of this is because you are targeting just a very small fraction of your organism, the remaining genome is exactly as it is, so we don't expect any unintended consequences in this organism after doing this process.

Will - That's reduced bruising. Are there any other aspects of the potato that you've been looking to snip out?

Barbara - Within this project, we're also looking at cooking quicker, and the reason for this is there are a few studies that have looked at the pheruja, which is this wild relative of our common potato, that cooks much quicker, in half the time. So we are also targeting this gene within maris piper, so this will have implications like using half of the energy when you need to cook it without, again, hopefully any other effects coming from it.

Will - I cannot wait for the day where I don't have to spend 30 minutes stood by my potatoes waiting for them to boil. Once you've taken out the genes that you don't want, how does that translate into scaling that up? Is it a case of you've then got your potato and you plant it and those genes are passed on to its offspring?

Barbara - Yes, kind of like that. We don't breed two potatoes together, meaning once you have this potato that has this trait, it will multiply it and all potatoes coming from here will have this trait. The only thing against us is there's only so many potatoes you can grow from each potato you have, so it takes time to have a large enough quantity to be able to plant large areas that will be commercially relevant, but it is a matter of time really.

Will - So the science behind a better potato is sound, but it is important to stress that this has to also be viewed under the lens of a business proposition. Whilst being a supreme technical achievement, having a better standard of spud is not much use unless it can be rolled out into supply and onto our plates. So how does this scientific wizardry translate out into the wider world?

Vidyanath - I would like to say it's very simple, but it's as complicated as gene editing, because it's not simple in the aspect of there's a new variety, let's just go and put it in the market. None of this has been nailed in terms of: this is how we're going to do it, because it's very much in its infancy.

Will - Let's talk about the policy terms. What classifies a variety?

Vidyanath - A variety has to be distinct. So if you are gene editing a variety, does it become a new variety or part of an existing variety?

The second thing is the consumer acceptance. As much as this is fun doing the science, would a supermarket stock a gene edited potato? And what are the implications of labelling? What are the implications of the consumer understanding the difference between gene modification, which is not what we're doing, to gene editing?

So there's a number of things that between us we all need to navigate and come to an arrangement where we could see this becoming a gene edited variety that you can buy. I do have my hope that within five years time, we should be in a position where these things have been boxed, released and accepted. You've got your potato.

Will - It looks great so far. But as you said, there's a wide range of foods out there that you're not so much competing with, but you are alongside. Do you ever believe that you might be crossing into a different type of food to create a more durable, better version of them too?

I firmly believe gene editing will become a very important tool if it's not already in the minds of people who are breeding crops. Our team now is working on onion crops, strawberries, a lot of brassica crops and much more. So these things tend to start with the humble spud and spread along any other crop that we can find that we can make value out of.

Baby

- Could thalidomide differences be passed down?

How did this past morning sickness treatment affect the development of babies...

Could thalidomide differences be passed down?

James - Thanks Elaine. Thalidomide is a drug that was used to treat morning sickness and sleeping problems in pregnant women in the 1950's and early 1960's. It was withdrawn in late 1961 after causing severe birth differences in thousands of children around the world, including the UK, Europe, Japan, Australia and the US. The most stereotypical effect of thalidomide on the developing baby was to the arms where it caused a loss of or a reduction in length of the long bones of the arms. But it manifested in many other ways too. To tell us more, and help us answer your question regarding you and your brother, Elaine, here’s Neil Vargesson, Professor of Developmental Biology at the University of Aberdeen.

Neil - Thanks James. In addition to the presentation you mentioned, thalidomide could (and did) cause damage to most of the tissues and organs of developing babies, and the extent and severity of damage was linked to the timing of exposure to the drug. The drug causes damage to the arms, face, legs, spine, internal organs such as the gastrointestinal tract, the reproductive tract and genitals and cardiovascular system, though no two survivors have the precise same damage patterns due to the differences in timing of exposure. The earlier in pregnancy exposure occurred, the more wide and debilitating the damage that was caused.

Today we know a lot more detail about the mechanism through which thalidomide caused birth differences. Thalidomide caused birth differences not by directly altering genes at the DNA level, but by interfering with the product of these genes, causing them to direct the correct instructions to developing tissues and organs, and also through affecting forming blood vessels. Together, this caused cells to die, cells to stop dividing, and the resulting tissues and organs could not form as expected, resulting in the birth differences then seen in affected children.

James - So, how does this mechanism relate to Elaine’s question? Could differences arising from thalidomide be passed down through generations?

Neil - Since neither you nor your brother, Elaine, inherited a genetic mutation from thalidomide exposure, there is no increased risk of passing any "faulty" genes to your children. Indeed, we now know that thalidomide is not a mutagen, that is, a compound that can alter DNA. It is known as a teratogen – that is a chemical from external sources (ie: the environment) that, following exposure during development, causes harm to the forming baby by interfering with developmental processes, like limb development. Other examples of chemicals or drugs that act on the embryo but not by altering the DNA of genes include Alcohol and Sodium Valproate.

James - So, Elaine. Fortunately, there is no risk of a thalidomide survivor passing on their differences to future generations. This is because thalidomide causes differences by disrupting fetal development rather than changing DNA. Thanks to Professor Neil Vargesson from the University of Aberdeen for helping us with the answer…

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